Well That's Pretty Damning

"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit) 01/04/2018 at 18:42 • Filed to: Amtrak, Amtrak 501

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https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/RRD18MR001-prelim.aspx

Inward-facing video with audio captured the crew’s actions and their conversations. A forward-facing video with audio captured conditions in front of the locomotive as well as external sounds.

The crew was not observed to use any personal electronic devices during the timeframe reviewed.

About 6 seconds prior to the derailment, the engineer made a comment regarding an over speed condition.

The engineer’s actions were consistent with the application of the locomotive’s brakes just before the recording ended. It did not appear the engineer placed the brake handle in emergency-braking mode.

The recording ended as the locomotive was tilting and the crew was bracing for impact.

The final recorded speed of the locomotive was 78 mph.

WilliamsSW > Takuro Spirit 01/04/2018 at 18:54

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I’ve been kinda wondering whether the engineer was complacent because he thought he was in PTC territory.

The investigation into why he was doing 78 in a 30 will be interesting.

someassemblyrequired > Takuro Spirit 01/04/2018 at 19:02

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I think there will be a couple of items which come to light:

1. First run on a new “faster” route - so likely trying to set a fast time.

2. The track parallels I-5 and is very straight on the initial segment south of Tacoma. The bend in Dupont is the first curve where the train would need to slow down, and it is quite a dramatic curve as the route goes from riding along I-5's southbound lanes to crossing to the northbound side at a fairly steep angle.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Takuro Spirit 01/04/2018 at 19:24

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Yeah but who takes the blame? Engineer for speeding? Amtrak for not installing PTC since they’re in charge of maintenance? WSDOT for not installing PTC since they own the train? Neither regarding PTC since it isn’t mandated until the end of 2018? Someone else for a different reason entirely?

Stapleface > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/04/2018 at 19:56

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I think the engineer will be the fall guy, but I place the blame on Amtrak. It’s a new line with a drastic speed reduction after a straightaway. If any track should have had a PTC, it’s this one.

ranwhenparked > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/04/2018 at 20:05

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Well, I don’t think any engineer is supposed to assume PTC is installed unless specifically stated for that stretch of track, and he is the one in control of the train and responsible for following proper laws and procedures.

I mean, if you’re speeding on a slick road and crash in a non-ABS equipped car, and the report shows that ABS might have allowed you to stop in time, is it the manufacturer’s fault for not installing ABS in your car, or your fault for going too fast for conditions and not respecting the limits of your equipment?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > ranwhenparked 01/04/2018 at 20:12

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I don’t disagree but that doesn’t mean that’s how it will turn out. And did the engineer ever do a trial run on this track? Maybe personnel training for this new line was lacking. Who knows? Seems to me like a lot of little failings added up, plus the speeding which is a big fail.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Stapleface 01/04/2018 at 20:14

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You’re probably right. But by that logic I think you could put some blame on WSDOT also for not making Amtrak install PTC. I don’t know. I’m not familiar with this industry.

ranwhenparked > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/04/2018 at 20:17

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Oh, no doubt. There’s plenty of blame to go around, just that I think the engineer should have some apportionment number above 50%.

wafflesnfalafel > Takuro Spirit 01/04/2018 at 21:30

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I drove under that just last weekend - scary stuff. I still don’t get how folks, the engineer, the other guy in the cab, a conductor, whomever, didn’t seem to notice they were flying up to that known corner at over double rated speed. I know sh!t happens and there always be human error - but on the inaugural run of a newly refurbished line with folks on board taking it just to be the first folks to run that line? It’d be like running a rally stage with no co-driver pace notes and never having looked at the course layout. I can’t wrap my head around it.

46and2aheadofme > Takuro Spirit 01/04/2018 at 23:55

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We knew all this within a couple hours after the crash. This has no new info and is blank under probable cause. The only real question is did the engineer fail to brake in time or was the train on some sort of autopilot (autoengineer?) mode that had a bug?

Patrick Nichols > Takuro Spirit 01/05/2018 at 00:15

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Had a good friend on the train, that was just recently released from the hospital and everything about it just smells like negligence at every level.

Legislators are to blame for allowing PTC regulation to be pushed off. WSDOT and Amtrak for not deciding to opt in early. The engineer for not doing what engineers have managed to do themselves, mostly without incident, for over a century.

I’m not sure about criminal proceedings, but I have a feeling civil suits will be had at every level.

Patrick Nichols > Patrick Nichols 01/05/2018 at 00:17

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Legislators should be voted out at their next reelection if people have a long enough memory.

Cé hé sin > Takuro Spirit 01/05/2018 at 05:07

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It’s down to the driver and route knowledge or the lack of same. Not having PTC is a bit of a red herring as it wasn’t required yet and the driver should know where he is and what the speed limits are.

Cé hé sin > 46and2aheadofme 01/05/2018 at 07:09

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It’s the first of those two. The driver didn’t brake. There’s a system called PTC that should have prevented the crash but it isn’t running that line yet.

46and2aheadofme > Cé hé sin 01/05/2018 at 10:54

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That’s what I figured. I’m annoyed by all the politicized talk of PTC, a backup system still being rolled out, when the actual cause is an engineer that apparently wasn’t paying attention. And apparently hasn’t been interviewed by the NTSB yet, probably because he’s the nougaty center in a delicious ball of Amtrak lawyers.

Mercedes Streeter > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/05/2018 at 11:52

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I’m not ashamed to say that I read countless NTSB reports.

Engineer will take majority of the blame, with contributory blame on Amtrak/WSDOT. Basically, the engineer passed multiple signs telling him to slow down and he ignored that, instead maybe attempting to rely on the automatic system to slow the train.

Some plane crashes have happened because pilots have done a similar thing. One cannot always expect an automated system to save your butt.

His Stigness > Takuro Spirit 01/05/2018 at 19:04

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As I was reading this I was thinking to myself, “so far it sounds like PTC could have prevented this. Oh, look, was right. That sucks. I’m glad Metrolink has PTC operational in LA county (hurry up with Ventura County damn it!”

Yeah, I talk to myself.